9b: Beyond Repair

This is a fascinating amud that centers around the interpretation of Kohelet 1:15 - "A crooked thing that cannot be made straight, and a lack cannot be counted" The first interpretation is offered by the always ready to party Bar Hay Hay, who argues that this verse refers to a person who refuses to join a group of people in performing a mitzva. What happened to the concept of tashlumin? This is not necessarily to say that this person refused because s/he wasn't interested in doing the mitzva - though that is possible - but could also be read as a person who preferred to do the mitzva on his/her own. If we understand the interpretation this way, what does it say about those sovereign selves out there?

Whereas the above interpretation begins with an offense against God that cannot be made straight, the Talmud's other example is an offense against people (specifically a woman and a child) that cannot be made straight. It uses the example of a man who impregnates a woman forbidden to him thus producing a mamzer. Given the rabbis' harsh restrictions on mamzerim, this surely seems like something that cannot be made straight.

What is conspicuously lacking from this conversation is the idea of teshuva. There are so many statements elsewhere in the Talmud about how real teshuva is so powerful. However, these offenses are presented as beyond teshuva. This fits with a mamzer (though that also deserves a why?) - who cannot be reborn or change his status, but what about with the person who refuses to do a mitzva with a community? Surely that would be something one could do teshuva?

I would be remiss if I did not mention the two terrific side conversations with Bar Hay Hay and Hillel and then Elijah. They too raise great questions about what are the limits of serving God and poverty. Nice amud.